Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: Are These Mutually Exclusive?
Clearly there are extremes, which would not ordinarily be classified as normal. For the sake of this discussion I wish to exclude the extremes and concentrate only on “normal man.”
Theory A suggest that man [mankind] is by nature self-centered, even greedy. This theory holds that man is motivated by what’s in it for him and him alone.
Theory B suggest that man [mankind] is by nature good. Being good, he is motivated to do the right thing, that which is ultimately in the best interest of all.
These two theories may at first seem contradictory, but are they really?
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 16 Location: Coldwater, Ohio
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject:
Wow, you always pick such deep sh*t. OK, I'll take a stab at it.
Theory holds I believe, that from the earliest of times man learned that on the whole, the survival of the pack improved his own chances of survival, and as the pack prospered he prospered. So in theory, what was good for the group was good for him. In reality mans eternal struggle has him alternating between good and evil. Which side wins? I think if a person gets too wrapped up in his greed, he sees the greed in others, and if she sees the good in others, she tends to respond in kind. Theories are great, reality s*cks.
Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Are These Mutually Exclusive?
louis wrote:
Clearly there are extremes, which would not ordinarily be classified as normal. For the sake of this discussion I wish to exclude the extremes and concentrate only on “normal man.”
Theory A suggest that man [mankind] is by nature self-centered, even greedy. This theory holds that man is motivated by what’s in it for him and him alone.
Theory B suggest that man [mankind] is by nature good. Being good, he is motivated to do the right thing, that which is ultimately in the best interest of all.
These two theories may at first seem contradictory, but are they really?
No.
Just because a person is watching out for themselves does not mean they will not help others.
I think we are both self centered and good. What is in the best interest for all, is in the best interest for one. When we work together [good] it betters each of us [self centered].
There are several examples. Prisoners of war that were fed a very little food would take some of their meal and give it to a sick comrade. There are a number of charities that help take care of the less fortunate. We had several fund raisers, in our town not to long ago, for a family that had their house burn down.
On a basic level we need to keep the species going. We do this by having children. There has to be cooperation to have children. In our “self-centeredness” we look for a mate. But we have to be “good” in order to win them over. We have to continue to do “good” in order to keep our mate.
Some place I learned that the secret to get what you want [self centered], is to help others get what they want [good].
_________________ David Wittmayer
Owner / Manager
Hansen Enterprises Fleet Repair, LLC
Camp Verde, AZ
www.hefrshop.com
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:30 am Post subject:
Hi Bill,
bbraun wrote:
Wow, you always pick such deep sh*t. OK, I'll take a stab at it.
Many times the answers to what appear to be simple everyday problems are rooted in deep subjects?
bbraun wrote:
Theory holds I believe, that from the earliest of times man learned that on the whole, the survival of the pack improved his own chances of survival, and as the pack prospered he prospered. So in theory, what was good for the group was good for him. In reality mans eternal struggle has him alternating between good and evil. Which side wins?
I don't see it as a good/evil issue, more a personal view point which influences our outlook. There is no reason the best interest of an individual needs to run counter to the best interest of the whole.
As a practical example, I might wish to give the best service possible. This is in my own best interest, because people receiving great service are more likely to return and spend more money.
I may wish to eliminate comebacks and rework, fixing the vehicle right the first time. This lowers my cost, because I do not waste time reworking. I now have more time to sell. At the same time the clients [whole] receive better service and lower cost.
The same may hold in a manager/employee relationship. If I am truly trustworthy, my employees are more likely to see and respond with trust. In a trusting relationship, a great deal of waste can be eliminated. Much less supervision is needed. Now one person might write service for five techs and still have time to run the shop and not be rushed.
Employees treated well, that enjoy their work, may remain with the company longer and produce far more. This can greatly reduce cost and increase profit. With increased profit the employees can be paid more, and given better conditions. This decreases the likelihood of their being dissatisfied and increases their chance of staying.
In each case the manager acts in their own best interest. In each case the interest of those they interact with are also served. Rather than a win/loose it's more of a action/reaction thing that produces an outcome.
bbraun wrote:
I think if a person gets too wrapped up in his greed, he sees the greed in others, and if she sees the good in others, she tends to respond in kind.
That's a very interesting observation. Does that mean, the way we look at the world tends to influence our outcomes?
bbraun wrote:
Theories are great, reality s*cks.
Theories are theories, useful tools to help people grow in knowledge. I believe a person’s reality tends to be a culmination of past and present behaviors, decisions and circumstances. Two of the three can be controlled, increasing the odds of a favorable outcome. Thanks Bill, I appreciate your reply.
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: Re: Are These Mutually Exclusive?
Dave wrote:
louis wrote:
Clearly there are extremes, which would not ordinarily be classified as normal. For the sake of this discussion I wish to exclude the extremes and concentrate only on “normal man.”
Theory A suggest that man [mankind] is by nature self-centered, even greedy. This theory holds that man is motivated by what’s in it for him and him alone.
Theory B suggest that man [mankind] is by nature good. Being good, he is motivated to do the right thing, that which is ultimately in the best interest of all.
These two theories may at first seem contradictory, but are they really?
No.
Just because a person is watching out for themselves does not mean they will not help others.
I think we are both self centered and good. What is in the best interest for all, is in the best interest for one. When we work together [good] it betters each of us [self centered].
This is my thought as well. People tend to act in what they see as their own best interest. This can also be in the best interest of all. Self interest does not need to be selfish.
Dave wrote:
There are several examples. Prisoners of war that were fed a very little food would take some of their meal and give it to a sick comrade. There are a number of charities that help take care of the less fortunate. We had several fund raisers, in our town not to long ago, for a family that had their house burn down.
These are all good examples and the list could go on and on. There are many practical examples in our own businesses. Giving great service to clients, is in their benefit. It is also in our own self interest as it increases the chances they will return and refer others.
Dave wrote:
On a basic level we need to keep the species going. We do this by having children. There has to be cooperation to have children. In our “self-centeredness” we look for a mate. But we have to be “good” in order to win them over. We have to continue to do “good” in order to keep our mate.
Some place I learned that the secret to get what you want [self centered], is to help others get what they want [good].
These are great points! In a business setting it could be seen as: Helping employees to enjoy their work increases the odds they will stay and be more productive. This could be seen as self interest for the manager, yet benefits the employee as well. It's sort of a reverse on the win/lose relationship.
I believe this distinction is no small matter. People tend to buy things they see in their own best interest. For instance, they don’t buy a transmission service, they buy a lower likelihood of transmission problems. The distinction in these two points may be immense, over the course of time. Thanks Dave, I appreciate the discussion and your input.
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