Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: Sensitive Social Issues/Questions
There was a time in the US when people were simply considered personally responsible for themselves. While I agree with this concept in general, it is just not applicable in more and more situations. Like it or not, business is and will likely continue to be responsible for much that happens to people, regardless of who causes the problem.
I am not interested in debating a return to the past, the facts are clear. If a person is hurt while working, the business will pay. If a person is incompetent or careless, the business will pay. So where do we draw a line, or do we?
A person that is grossly overweight, eats very poorly, smokes, etc. may be a lifestyle choice, but who will inevitably fund the health care. Now I realize there is a limited amount that can be done and I don’t advocate a “nanny State.” When I am asked [mandated] to pay for such things however, I feel I do have some say.
Healthy, safe, well trained workers, who enjoy their work are in the best interest of business. “Wellness” programs are in the interest of business, in my opinion. But, what else might we do? Is credit counseling not also in the best interest of business? How about remedial education programs? Is it a matter of who’s at fault or overall lowest cost?
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 146 Location: Garden City, KS
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:14 am Post subject:
I've thought for sometime that health insurance and health care providers have it backwards. Our heath care system is much like our business management: short term correction of symptoms. If I go to the doctor for a headache he/she may look down my throat, take my temp and blood pressure and ascertain that I have stress. I'll get prescribed some strong Tylenol and be sent on my way. I may get a short lecture about some stress relieving techniques or told I should seek relief.
What if it worked like this? I go to the doctor with a headache and many of the same tests are run. Maybe they go even further and run MRI and CAT scans. Now they have the whole picture. The diagnosis is made, I have high stress. Now the next step: no drugs are prescribed. I meet with a professional on some stress relief techniques and then get educated on how to lower stress in my life. Maybe even talk out some problems in the process. My insurance company contacts me a few days later to make sure I'm following through on my "prescription", continued classes and improved lifestyle. If I don't follow through, I risk being dropped. That may sound harsh, but I've been given the opportunity to improve my health and if I don't take it why should they (you) pay for it?
Yes, I agree that there would be issues where that process may not work and that a different direction may have to be taken with different clients. But, the idea is that this is long-term focused and I also feel would save everyone tons of money over the long-term as well.
I do not feel that it would be a bad practice by a company to offer such benefits. Also, I don't feel it would be a bad idea for a company to offer to pay or help pay for gym (YMCA) memberships, food programs (Nutrisystem?), or as Louis eludes to education beyond the company's focus. I would also agree that the business, when providing such benefits, should be allowed to track it's use (as to not be abused/unused) and revoke if applicable.
What are your thoughts?
Later, Matt.
_________________ Matt Fanslow
ASE CMAT/L1
Crag-Technologies, Inc
www.wavehook.com
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:27 am Post subject:
Hi Matt,
People are funny, especially when it comes to what they see as "their business." Being the same way and really dislike being mandated. When people were largely self sufficient, this was a great way.
I also believe that if I am asked [mandated] to fund the results of another person's behavior, the equation changes. Now I do have an interest in the outcome and feel a right to some input.
It does not seem [to me] we have a "health care system" at all. Rather we have health care. Politicians banter over ever new ways to fund the entire inefficient mess. No one seems to be asking, "How can we make this better?"
It's almost like, a country full of people with cars the wear out tires every 5,000 miles. Tire producers spring up to supply the demand. The government and employers create programs to pay for the tires and dispose of the old ones. Demand continues to drive the price up, so we need newer programs to fund it all.
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 47 Location: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Sensitive Social Issues/Questions
Louis Altazan wrote:
There was a time in the US when people were simply considered personally responsible for themselves. While I agree with this concept in general, it is just not applicable in more and more situations. Like it or not, business is and will likely continue to be responsible for much that happens to people, regardless of who causes the problem.
I am not interested in debating a return to the past, the facts are clear. If a person is hurt while working, the business will pay. If a person is incompetent or careless, the business will pay. So where do we draw a line, or do we?
A person that is grossly overweight, eats very poorly, smokes, etc. may be a lifestyle choice, but who will inevitably fund the health care. Now I realize there is a limited amount that can be done and I don’t advocate a “nanny State.” When I am asked [mandated] to pay for such things however, I feel I do have some say.
Healthy, safe, well trained workers, who enjoy their work are in the best interest of business. “Wellness” programs are in the interest of business, in my opinion. But, what else might we do? Is credit counseling not also in the best interest of business? How about remedial education programs? Is it a matter of who’s at fault or overall lowest cost?
This mess can't continue, Louis. It will fail...it's just a matter of time. This fall you can vote for a socialist or a somewhat conservative socialist. Or, maybe it's time to look elsewhere.
Have all of your staff attend Financial Peace University offered through Dave Ramsey. The 13 week course runs about $200 and is available in almost every town. This one can change lives.
Offer to pay for remedial education classes at the local community college.
We are fast closing in on nationalizing the banks, the mortgage companies, the airlines, the car companies, the oil companies, etc.
Unbridled redistribution of wealth is well underway and growing.
I would not be surprised to see the auto service industry be taken over by the feds at some point in the future if total collapse does not occur first.
The people are going to have to rise up and put a stop to it all...it's time for a Revolution.
_________________ Tom Ham
AutomotiveManagementNetwork.com - Hams Management Systems
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Sensitive Social Issues/Questions
Tom Ham wrote:
Louis Altazan wrote:
There was a time in the US when people were simply considered personally responsible for themselves. While I agree with this concept in general, it is just not applicable in more and more situations. Like it or not, business is and will likely continue to be responsible for much that happens to people, regardless of who causes the problem.
I am not interested in debating a return to the past, the facts are clear. If a person is hurt while working, the business will pay. If a person is incompetent or careless, the business will pay. So where do we draw a line, or do we?
A person that is grossly overweight, eats very poorly, smokes, etc. may be a lifestyle choice, but who will inevitably fund the health care. Now I realize there is a limited amount that can be done and I don’t advocate a “nanny State.” When I am asked [mandated] to pay for such things however, I feel I do have some say.
Healthy, safe, well trained workers, who enjoy their work are in the best interest of business. “Wellness” programs are in the interest of business, in my opinion. But, what else might we do? Is credit counseling not also in the best interest of business? How about remedial education programs? Is it a matter of who’s at fault or overall lowest cost?
This mess can't continue, Louis. It will fail...it's just a matter of time. This fall you can vote for a socialist or a somewhat conservative socialist. Or, maybe it's time to look elsewhere.
Have all of your staff attend Financial Peace University offered through Dave Ramsey. The 13 week course runs about $200 and is available in almost every town. This one can change lives.
Offer to pay for remedial education classes at the local community college.
We are fast closing in on nationalizing the banks, the mortgage companies, the airlines, the car companies, the oil companies, etc.
Unbridled redistribution of wealth is well underway and growing.
I would not be surprised to see the auto service industry be taken over by the feds at some point in the future if total collapse does not occur first.
The people are going to have to rise up and put a stop to it all...it's time for a Revolution.
Hi Tom,
The last revolution was fought over less. I can't understand why a government, that cannot manage their own affairs, seems to think they can manage anything else. Perhaps the question is why a people that see this keep asking for more?
Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject:
I think people that get into, and keep, positions of authority and power are not necessarily the best ones for the job. In fact, they may do very poorly.
But, they are good at getting into, and keeping, the position.
_________________ David Wittmayer
Owner / Manager
Hansen Enterprises Fleet Repair, LLC
Camp Verde, AZ
www.hefrshop.com
Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Ketchikan, AK, USA
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: symptoms
I agree with the fact that this nation's policies are in a sorry condition. However, I believe that policies aside, the real issue is with the individual. The symptoms in a person's life are simply symptoms of their deeper beliefs and philosophies. The ultimate responsibility is always the individual's.
However, there are certainly things that a shop owner can do to help bring positive change to their employees. Programs can help. All programs should be centered on addressing the issues causing the symptoms though. They shouldn't merely focus on addressing symptoms.
Showing people that they matter is key.
Education, helping people assume responsibility, as well as visiting and helping your employees out when they're in tough times are valuable in contributing to a person's self worth. Kindness can go a long ways.
In today's disconnected reality of "not my fault blame the system" shop owners can start by encouraging self-responsibility in employees.
I error on the side of accepting responsibility, and whatever good the system does for me is taken as a bonus.
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 146 Location: Garden City, KS
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:26 am Post subject:
The fix for government isn't a regime change or a policy, but a philosophy change. The change would have to come from the top down and I don't know that any one branch of our government is strong enough to effectively apply such a philosophy. The possiblility of all 3 branches joining in its application ranks somewhere between winning the lottery and Steven Hawking walking again.
Later, Matt.
_________________ Matt Fanslow
ASE CMAT/L1
Crag-Technologies, Inc
www.wavehook.com
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: symptoms
Hi Dwayne,
dharman wrote:
I agree with the fact that this nation's policies are in a sorry condition. However, I believe that policies aside, the real issue is with the individual. The symptoms in a person's life are simply symptoms of their deeper beliefs and philosophies. The ultimate responsibility is always the individual's.
I think your right and truly believe government is a reflection of those governed. "Men get the government they deserve." Government, in my opinion, is involved in way too many things already, things the people are better equipped to deal with.
dharman wrote:
However, there are certainly things that a shop owner can do to help bring positive change to their employees. Programs can help. All programs should be centered on addressing the issues causing the symptoms though. They shouldn't merely focus on addressing symptoms.
Showing people that they matter is key.
Education, helping people assume responsibility, as well as visiting and helping your employees out when they're in tough times are valuable in contributing to a person's self worth. Kindness can go a long ways.
In today's disconnected reality of "not my fault blame the system" shop owners can start by encouraging self-responsibility in employees.
This is true and all very important, as long as the employee has control of the factors, which is often not the case. The shop owner takes in thirty different brands of vehicles, half-way gets the symptoms written down and expects them fixed with no information, one generic scan tool and according to his time table all using white box junk parts.
Such a shop owner may feel the employees are responsible for low production and comebacks. Believe as he may, he will not get better production nor quality until HE changes the system. Personal responsibility works both ways, workers perform the work and management does everything else.
dharman wrote:
I error on the side of accepting responsibility, and whatever good the system does for me is taken as a bonus.
I do the same, but I have nearly 100% control of the inputs. I think management assumes this role when they put on their manager cap, it comes with the territory. At the same time, improving the system in which the workers operate, is also 100% my responsibility, as a manager. Holding others responsible, for me being an ineffective manager is not personal responsibility, it is abdication of it, in my opinion.
Thanks Dwayne, I appreciate your input and your contribution.
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject:
MattFMN wrote:
The fix for government isn't a regime change or a policy, but a philosophy change. The change would have to come from the top down and I don't know that any one branch of our government is strong enough to effectively apply such a philosophy. The possiblility of all 3 branches joining in its application ranks somewhere between winning the lottery and Steven Hawking walking again.
Later, Matt.
Hi Matt,
I think you are right on target. As Dwayne stated, government will change when those asking it to do everything for them, from cradle to grave change [or when those paying for it all refuse or are no longer able.]
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
The last revolution was fought over less. I can't understand why a government, that cannot manage their own affairs, seems to think they can manage anything else. Perhaps the question is why a people that see this keep asking for more?
